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Potions: A Curious Tale - Renee Gittins Interview
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May 12, 2024
In a Game Sandwich interview, we speak with Renee Gittins about Stumbling Cat, Potions: A Curious Tale, and her career as a game developer. Video trailers: Provided by Renee and Stumbling Cat Read the article: https://www.gamesandwich.com/features/brewing-potions-a-curious-tale-pursuing-dreams-and-goals/ Follow us and let's talk about video games, their stories, and the people that make them! 📱Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@game.sandwich.official ✖️Socials: https://twitter.com/TheGameSandwich 🎮Join our Discord: https://discord.com/invite/6GrQYXYdSf #videgames #gaming #gamingcommunity
View Video Transcript
0:00
Renee, thank you for hanging out with us for game sandwiches. Actually, you're going to be I'll say
0:05
right now the first interview for game sandwich. Exciting indie dev. We love highlighting indie
0:11
devs talking about video games, their stories and the people that make and play them. And you are
0:16
both a person that makes and plays video games. We're talking about potions and curious tale
0:21
Renee Hittins. How are you doing today? I'm doing quite well. Thank you
0:26
Awesome, wonderful. And as we were talking before, but you're popping up all over the internet
0:31
review, reviews for potions, interviews for potions, preview, whatever, everything. So you're been very busy. So thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to hang out
0:41
with us a game sandwich. Yeah, it's my pleasure. So I know potions has been out for a bit now
0:49
I want to talk about before it released, get into your headscape. What was it like
0:56
initially working on potions? How was that process? How was it coming up with the idea with your team
1:02
And then we'll get into kind of where you're at now and everything else. But let's talk about the past first. Yeah, I mean, so potions has been in development or was in development for an extremely
1:12
long time. It initially started as just a portfolio piece for my own game industry portfolio. I wasn't
1:19
intending it to be a commercial product. I just wanted something to demonstrate my skills as a
1:23
game developer. And portfolios are very important for game developers. However, as I started
1:30
developing it and working on it and telling people about what I was working on, there was a lot of
1:34
interest within the game development community because they thought that the design was quite
1:38
interesting. And so I decided to invest some of my personal money to bring on some contractors to
1:45
help with art and audio and actually do a Kickstarter. So the Kickstarter was successful
1:50
with 15 minutes left. So I barely squeaked by on funding, but it gave me the capital to continue to
1:58
hire contractors, pay everyone up front for the development of the game. So I've done almost all
2:04
of the programming, most of the design, almost all the writing on the game and have received most of
2:10
the help with art and audio. And I've been very thankful for both the artists and audio
2:18
designers on the team, as well as other people who've contributed when I haven't been able to
2:22
take on everything myself. I actually grew my game development career as I was growing
2:28
Potions of Curious Tale because the Kickstarter didn't give me enough funds to pay myself anything
2:34
So I still needed to keep a roof over my head and food on my table. And so I started with
2:40
doing initially contracts in the game development industry, and then I moved to full-time employment
2:45
in various roles, mostly within technical production. But I've also been a server developer
2:51
a marketing coordinator for Xbox, and even a general manager of a AAA studio and the head of
2:59
the IGDA. So I've had quite a colorful career throughout my development of Potions. But I took
3:04
this last year to really focus on finishing up Potions, getting out the door, and setting up all
3:10
of the marketing and other efforts that is necessary to make an indie game successful
3:16
Right, obviously, it's been successful. I've seen many people on the internet talking about
3:21
it, how good it is, how fun it is, how just chill it is. It brings this vibe of just a game
3:26
you want to play. And you're not like, you know, fighting or doing a lot of stressful things. It's
3:32
a lot of just chill vibes. And I love that. Thank you. Yeah, I think it really hits that
3:37
interesting note between cozy and adventure. And that connects really well with a lot of people
3:42
because a lot of people still want to have, you know, some monsters and some boss fights
3:47
but not for it to be a super stressful, like super fast paced, fast paced and like twitchy experience
3:55
Right. I find that interesting, because on the article on Game Center, we talked about I asked
4:00
you, what was the game that kind of got you into gaming? You said Half-Life, which is very, very
4:07
I would consider opposite of what Potions is. I actually don't agree. But that's because my first
4:14
games, the first three games I ever played, were Wolfenstein 3d, Doom and Duke Nukem 3d
4:19
which were all first person shooters. But that didn't have very many, like didn't really have
4:25
puzzle solving, or very surface level and story and not very immersive. Whereas Half-Life took
4:31
the first person shooter approach. I mean, it starts with almost like a 15 minute introduction
4:37
of just being a scientist, right, running around in your lab. And then all of the puzzles are
4:42
really well integrated into the world. It's very immersive. It has a lot of story that you're shown
4:48
as much as you're told. And that is what actually made me fall in love with Half-Life and get so
4:54
connected to video games overall. Okay, yeah, it's been a while since I played a Half-Life
5:00
But I do actually I remember that first opening 15 minutes. And it's like, you know, this is a
5:04
legit story. They're showing you and telling you and you're going along for the ride. And then it
5:08
kind of gets intense later on. But yeah, but potions is just this, this, I got the word I'm
5:17
going to use is super chill and super fun and super friendly. I love the art style binded
5:22
So if we want to go talk to, you know, sticking with the past, the whole art style, was there
5:27
a conversation where you're like, No, this is the style I want, or this is what I'm going to go for
5:31
Or did you just kind of leave that to your art team? I initially created my own art Bible. And
5:38
I was actually considering a bit of a darker overall aesthetic leading more into like the
5:44
Brothers Grimm version of fairy tales. But as I started working with some of my initial artists
5:51
and as I began to understand, the most passionate audience for the game was women, particularly
5:59
girls. I decided to that having a bit more of a bright aesthetic and leaning into like the
6:06
happiness of fairy tales instead of the darkness of fairy tales was overall more complementary to
6:12
the gameplay and the audience. Right? And speaking of fairy tales and folklore, was there a specific
6:19
culture of folklore that you gravitated towards? Or was it just kind of picking and choosing grabbing
6:24
what you really liked and enjoyed? It started out with grabbing with what I connected with
6:29
and enjoyed. And then I tried to be very intentional with investigating other cultures
6:34
and including important stories to various peoples from those cultures. So not all of those
6:43
were able to make it into the main story. But I have the 56 collectible cards throughout the game
6:50
which do have notable folklore characters on them as well. That's really exciting. I love anything
6:56
game was it does folklore dives deep into a lore that you may not know about. It's just, you know
7:01
anything that you can connect with a game where you're like, that's super cool. I didn't know that. And if you can learn more, really just connects, I think, people on a personal level
7:10
Absolutely. And potions is full of that. Yeah, no, I love it. And obviously, you said, you know, mainly gravitating towards girls and women
7:17
you release the game on International Women's Day. I did. So was that an intentional release for you
7:23
Absolutely. Yeah, that was a completely intentional release. I had decided to release the game after
7:33
the Steam Next Fest in February. And I was looking at a timeframe there with it being both
7:38
Women's History Month and International Women's Day. It lined up perfectly with the celebration
7:45
of women in games, of women game developers. And so that's why I chose that date
7:50
Yeah, I mean, it's super incredible, obviously. Excuse me, I'm sorry. Incredible to see, incredible that you did that. And kind of moving over to the present now
8:02
Obviously, the game was released, the game is now out. How has it been from, you know
8:08
that conceptual design and everything to being in the present? Were there things you had to change
8:14
Or was it just, you know, basically, this is it. This is like my design, my ideas going forward
8:19
and then to the present now? No, not much has changed or a lot changed
8:24
So from the very first concept, when I really like first started making the design
8:29
a decent amount had changed. I had been inspired by Recettear, an item shop tale. And that game has
8:38
running an item shop in it and a day and night cycle and trying to use your time properly and
8:44
handle orders and get them fulfilled within the right time period. So that was something I had
8:48
originally considered including in potions. But one of my good friends, Rami Ismail, gave me a
8:54
wonderful piece of advice, which is to as early as possible, create the elevator pitch for your game
9:00
a couple sentences that talk about what's unique, you know, what the story is, what the mechanics
9:05
are, and then to tailor all of your game around that pitch to ensure that nothing, you know
9:12
is part of your design and approach. And as I created that elevator pitch, I realized that I
9:18
was really interested in the adventure aspects, the problem solving, and while running a shop can
9:26
have some problem solving in it, it was ultimately a distraction from the experience I wanted the
9:30
players to have. So I never programmed that. But it was in the initial design and was pulled out
9:36
early on. When it comes to the actual development of the game, I would say that the only system that
9:43
has had serious rework is the crafting system. It was originally intended to just be a three item
9:50
combination system, but it led to too many frustrating failures when people were experimenting
9:55
with different item combinations. And so I moved it to more of an element based system so people
10:01
could be successful with their experiments more often and allow players to feel rewarded and feel
10:09
like they wanted to experiment instead of being fearful of wasting items
10:12
Yeah. So I love crafting game, you know, just put it in front of me, get your how many crafting
10:18
ingredients are there in the game? I think there's 60 or so. And the the ultimate result is 107 potions
10:29
And are you looking to update or add anything in the future? So I'm looking at doing console ports after I finish the first two minor content patches. And
10:40
when I am developing the console ports, I plan to include free content update, a larger content
10:45
update for both PC and consoles. Awesome. Fantastic to hear. We talked a bit about the roadmap on the article side. We're not going
10:52
to touch more into that. But I kind of want to touch base to the future of the game. It's been
11:00
out one month in the days, right? Yeah, released on March 8, March 7 or 8. One of those depending
11:09
on your time zone. Yeah. So the future of the game, obviously, you're working on patches
11:16
you're working on updates. Is there anything else that you I mean, besides console ports
11:22
you're not going to say anything when because it takes a lot to get it to consoles. Obviously
11:26
there's a lot of behind the scenes work that goes into it. And I know that we don't want to really
11:30
touch on that because you have to talk to everyone involved. But what is the what is like the future you hope for potions
11:42
Yeah. So I mean, ultimately, I think potions is a very wonderful story based game that
11:50
ultimately is focused around a single playthrough. You know, so this isn't a roguelike, this isn't
11:57
you know, a Minecraft or Stardew Valley where you might be trying to, like really spend hundreds of
12:02
hours in the game. You know, overall, it takes about 12 hours to beat the game and 15 to 20
12:08
hours to 100% it depending on how much you look at guides and get other help. And I think that
12:16
that's kind of the experience I want it to remain as so, you know, when I do additional content
12:21
that's probably gonna be focused only at the end of the game. So players can load up their
12:25
their saves and, you know, continue to enjoy the world a bit more. But I'm not looking at making
12:32
this something that someone can spend 200 hours playing because, you know, the the tailored
12:37
crafted story based experience that players get to enjoy, I think is really important to the
12:44
overall design of potions. Now, in the future, I might create other games based on the potions
12:50
IP and worlds that have different design to them. None of those are currently in the works
12:57
I'm really focusing all my energy on creating potions content, and also on creating the
13:03
physical Kickstarter rewards, and maybe a Helios plushie because I really want to hear this
13:08
I mean, you scream plushie. Everyone's like, yes, give me a plushie, right? I mean, and he's your cat companion. So like, people are very attached to Helios. He's quite a
13:16
popular character, right? So we can speak of Helios. Is that based on any real life
13:22
animal companion that you may know? Or is it just a cats are great. Let's put a cat in there
13:27
Um, it is. And this is a little bit of a sad story. So like, we're warning. It's based on
13:32
my cat calcifer. He's a Maine coon, very snuggly, very hat like, and who has was with me through
13:42
almost the entire development of the game. He was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer at the start
13:47
of the year, and passed a month before the release of potions. So I had to deal with
13:54
his health issues, as well as saying goodbye to him right before the game released, which was
14:00
definitely difficult. Yeah, I apologize. I'm sorry. I've got two cat babies myself. So
14:06
that was Helios is the cat. Yeah, but it's very nice to have, you know, that memory
14:13
immortalized in a game that fans can connect with, you know, saying this is yours and people
14:19
ever most people have pets and know that you can travel around with this companion. That's really
14:24
it's a very touching thing you did. Yeah. And one of our team members who also
14:34
passed during development is an NPC in the game. So he has a whole quest line and you can recruit
14:39
him. And then he becomes a mini quest giver in the town. So I am really glad that I was able to
14:47
honor both of them. And actually, apparently, I just have a lot of dead friends in my game
14:52
His his hawk that's on his shoulder has like a little green Mohawk. Because one of my other
14:59
good friends is was named Joe and was known as Joe Hawk, because he had a green Mohawk. So
15:06
he's he's makes a cameo in there as well. So I snuck in a lot of little
15:12
entries of respect of those who have departed. And I mean, you have the right to do that because it
15:16
is your game. I mean, what is it because you've worked on previous games, obviously. And I don't
15:22
know how much creative output or input you had, but having full control over your game. How does
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that make you feel? Um, it is empowering and terrifying. I actually don't have a ton of
15:35
confidence in myself in a game as a game designer. I think that that is one of my areas of imposter
15:42
syndrome, like the worst part of imposter syndrome. And it's funny because like, while
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feeling imposter syndrome of being a game designer, I decided to enter a game jam number of years ago
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and only focused on game design. And then we won the game jam locally for the game design. And I
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was still like, Well, this doesn't count. I still don't feel like now I have to face it, I've at
16:05
least released a game that has a popular design. So maybe I'm an okay game designer, but I don't
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fully believe it yet. I would say you're a very great game designer. And you have a pretty
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historic career to boot. So with potions is just your first major endeavor on your own
16:22
Correct. Yeah, I've done a lot within the games industry, a lot of which is in supportive in
16:28
service of other game developers. So I feel very honored that I have had those positions
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I kind of wanted to talk about that, you know, how you've not only helped the team at Stumbling
16:37
Cat yourself potions, but seven years plus as the alumni board chair, executive director
16:44
vice chair, you name it for the International Game Developers Association or IGDA. So what was that
16:50
like? What was that? What did that look like for your career in general? Yeah. So I am currently
16:58
based in Seattle and through much of my career have been based in Seattle and Seattle has a
17:02
really wonderful and helpful game development industry, as well as the IGDA Seattle chapter
17:08
which hosts local events for game developers, mostly educational ones. The IGDA had a booth
17:15
once at a conference, I think back in 2014 or 15. And I went up to the booth and engaged with them
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and provided light critical feedback for how they could improve local events and engagement with
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communities. And I was invited to join their next board meeting and quickly became part of the IGDA
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Seattle board of directors, where I helped run industry events and support the local industry
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for two to three years. That time was really wonderful for me because I was able to support
17:46
all the game developers who were in turn supporting me. And honestly, throughout my entire career
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I've received so much mentorship, advice, support, just resharing of the things I've been doing
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and that has been invaluable. After being on the Seattle board for a few years, I ran for the
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international board of directors and was elected to a three-year term. And then near the end of
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that term, our executive director stepped down and I thought it was a good opportunity for me to be
18:16
more involved supporting the global games industry. So I applied for and was selected for that position
18:23
and supported the games industry for almost three years as the executive director, which is basically
18:28
the head of the IGDA. That happened six months before COVID. So a lot of my focus during that time
18:36
was developing resources to assist game developers in finding, you know, work from home strategies
18:46
virtual team strategies, mental health support, financial support. And I'm really glad that I was
18:54
able to be in a position that allowed me to help so many developers. And during that time
18:59
I developed a lot of white papers and other standards around ensuring that our game
19:06
our industry, the game industry is the best it could be and is a positive place for people to
19:11
work. Because of course, we've not had the best history when it comes to that. And though it's
19:16
getting better, I still think we have a ways to go as well. Yeah, I agree. If the past year and
19:21
the first four months of this year are any indication, it's sad to see all the layoffs
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It's sad to see everything that's happening. But, you know, people like you with your pedestal to
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lift others up to help young game developers, I firmly, truly believe that we're seeing
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that beginning of the indie year. Like 2024, I think it's going to be the indie year
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And then just going forward. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree with you. Especially because
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one of the things that the larger studios did was over the last two and a half years
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they cut all their R&D teams, which really leaves the opportunity ripe to have disruption around
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new genres or genre combinations in the market, which is where indies slot in perfectly
20:05
Yeah. So you mentioned, you know, building confidence and, you know, instilling insight
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into younger developers and everything like that. What would you say this might be a very
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difficult question? What would you say is the number one thing that somebody told you in your
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early career now? Like, well, not early career, but like, what has led you, you know, what did
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someone say that lifted you up? Or was like, hey, you know, you can do this. You can be an indie
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developer. Yeah, I, um, I don't know if anybody said one, like particular item of encouragement
20:42
I tend to be a very goal driven person. And so the most support that I've received
20:49
has been around advice on pursuing my goals. And that's where I find my motivation. I, you know
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it takes a lot of stubbornness to work on a game for 10 years. It doesn't just take, you know
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motivation and skill and persistence. There's this, you know, innate stubbornness that I fear
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I have as a person, which has worked both in my favor and against my favor. So for me, the most
21:15
uplifting thing that people have done is just given me some of their time. I think that's what's
21:21
really beautiful about the games industry is that everyone is so collaborative and helpful. I've
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worked, I mean, I was in biotech before I was in games, and I've seen other industries interact
21:31
And in game development, we are all nerdy gamers who just love the mediums that we're working in
21:39
And there aren't a lot of things preventing us from giving advice to each other. You know
21:43
we don't have a lot of secrecy because games are hard to make. So you can just talk about how you
21:49
make games without revealing industry secrets. And that's been the most inspiring thing is just
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having dozens and hundreds of people who are willing to give me the time of day and advice and
22:02
support. And what I have found more helpful when I was feeling down than anything else is having
22:10
people that I respect and look up to who are willing to give me critical feedback. Because if
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I ask them if I'm off track, I can trust their answers that they will tell me honestly how they
22:23
feel. And I take a lot of comfort in that because I'm always scared of my own blind spots. And I
22:28
think we should always be scared of our own blind spots and biases. And so to have people who are
22:34
helping me identify those and prepare to, you know, fight against them, that has been truly supportive
22:43
more so than any words of praise could be. Yeah, I mean, I always say, you know, I tell my team
22:49
I tell people, if you're not learning, you're not growing, if you don't have that person, or those
22:53
people who are pushing you to do better, then you're just going to stay where you are. And it's
22:58
I've always loved talking with developers, game makers, and they're always like, my team is
23:03
without this team, without this person, we weren't going to do it, you know, as you said, it's hard
23:08
making games. And it's any wonder any game ever gets made. I've never made a game, but I've always
23:15
wanted to, but I what I enjoy most is talking about people who get to make games. And with
23:22
hopefully, I'll say it is the year of the Indie. And I'd love to just what I hope to do a game
23:29
sandwich is just share as many games and developers as I possibly can, just to get that word out there
23:35
to get those people, you know, those names out there, those games that you may not know about. Potions is one of those when I first saw it. I don't remember where it was a tweet, I think
23:44
and I was like, What is this game? And then on my discord, I had one of my writers like
23:49
why don't you reach out to Renee getting some potions? And I was like, you know, sure, I'd love
23:54
to. And he reached out to you, I reached out to you, and you reached out back. And I was like
23:59
I'm so excited to talk to you. Because game games are just great. There's no other way to say it
24:05
I love video games, and they deserve to be talked about. Big, small, medium, little star. Yeah
24:11
I completely agree. And I think it's really wonderful what you're doing, bringing
24:15
the spotlight to more of these titles. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today
24:19
Yeah, it's been my absolute pleasure. If there's anything else you want to talk about potions or say about potions, or you're just in
24:27
career in general, you know, now's the time to go ahead you have a floor. Yeah, I will speak a little bit on potions. If any of you who are listening to this have
24:37
not played potions, the demo is free. And it's like two or three hours of the game
24:41
And the demo slaves load into the full game as well. So you're not missing anything even
24:46
retroactively gives you achievements for things that you've done. So yeah, it there's no risk
24:51
and just trying out potions the game and you can figure out if it's a game for you. And I've had
24:56
people play like 10 hours of the demo, because you can keep trying to like make new potions and
25:00
things while you're playing it too. So lots of free content there for you. Yeah, and you can pet the cat
25:05
And you and you can pet the cat, which is the most important thing. And of course, there's an achievement for that. So when it comes to like game development
25:14
if you're interested in being a game developer, the number one thing that you can do is start
25:19
making games, whether that's just following a tutorial, whether that's making a mod for your
25:24
favorite game, whether that's, you know, doing something else to engage with game development
25:29
even just doing a paper prototype of an idea you have. And that process will teach you so much
25:35
about game development, as well as help you start to build up that portfolio that is so important
25:39
for getting a professional job within the games industry. So do that sign up for game jams
25:46
meet other people network and you will absolutely find your spot in this wonderful industry
25:51
Renee, you're incredible. Thank you so much. Of course
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